Castor: Overheard remarks correspond to matters addressed at meetings
By JENNY DeHUFF
Times Herald Staff
NORRISTOWN — Two of three Montgomery County commissioners have been meeting on Tuesdays before the regular 10 a.m. county commissioners regular agenda meeting, a Times Herald reporter recently observed.
The Jem Restaurant, located across the street from the Hillcrest Plaza Shopping Center at Swede Street and Germantown Pike, is typically bustling at 8:45 a.m.
Some regular faces can be seen during that time, namely those of Montgomery County Commissioners’ Chairman Jim Matthews and Vice Chairman Joe Hoeffel.
A Times Herald reporter was at the Jem on Oct. 19, and again on Nov. 9, within earshot of Matthews and Hoeffel, who were having their Tuesday breakfast rendezvous with county Solicitor Barry Miller and Deputy Chief Operating Officer Jim Maza.
The reporter overheard them talking about such subjects as appointments, land acquisitions, expenditures, operating budgets and bonds.
But on each occasion, one major figure was left out of the equation — the third commissioner, Bruce Castor. This created a clear violation of Pennsylvania’s Sunshine Act, according to a Pennsylvania Newspaper Association attorney.
When the Times Herald reporter presented Castor with the findings of the meetings, he said almost all the material was exactly what was marked for the subsequent 10 a.m. commissioner’s meeting agenda.
At Wednesday morning’s public commissioner’s meeting, Matthews denied talking county business during the morning gatherings, and said much of the conversation revolved around “the Eagles, family and food.”
In both cases, on Oct. 19 and Nov. 9, the reporter heard nothing of these subjects.
During the Oct. 19 meeting, Matthews and Hoeffel were overheard discussing appointments, which are rotated among the three commissioners.
According to Castor, during that morning’s commissioner’s meeting, they discussed putting a bond together with State Sen. John Rafferty, in order to pay for economic development in Conshohocken.
During the Nov. 9 meeting, Matthews and Hoeffel were overheard discussing the following:
• Being unable to put money into the operating budget, and a $22 million-deal needed.
“The $22 million was to be realized by the sale of the Human Services Center,” Castor confirmed.
“They are talking about whether they can include that in the county budget or not. When they say they can’t, it’s because they need to use the money to pay off bonds. That very day, we discussed a proposal to sell the Human Services Center.”
• Matters of Norristown school taxes.
“The school district and the municipality are anxious for the sale of the Human Services building to go through because that would add the building back to the tax rolls,” Castor explained.
“They are trying to figure a way to remove the line item from the budget and at the same time find money for Norristown. That’s about as big county business as you can get.”
• Matters of confidentiality reports in reference to the Human Services building.
That very morning, Castor said, they discussed taking that provision out of the deal.
“The reason I know we discussed that is because I objected to it being confidential,” said Castor.
“I thought, if it was known we were negotiating for a better sale of the building, then other potential buyers would learn of it and we might be able to get a better price.”
• Central figures in terms of rent.
“They are calculating whether the county will have to pay rent to keep our departments in the (Human Services) building, and how much that rent will be,” said Castor.
“The rent will affect the negotiation of the sale of the building.”
• Negotiations disclosures.
“They are trying to decide whether or not we should hire a consultant to represent us in the negotiations of the sale of the building. That’s about as governmental as it gets,” said Castor.
• An Oct. 26 meeting commissioners had with CBIZ, a controversial health insurance consultant.
“CBIZ executives have given tens of thousands of dollars to Jim Matthews’ and Joe Hoeffel’s campaigns, in exchange for secret, no-bid contracts for the county’s health administration. It paid for a free car for Matthews to drive around in, tax-free,” said Castor.
• The commissioners selling back the land of Norristown Farm Park, auctioning off the herd and selling farm park supplies along with it.
“A program we were considering was to sell assets and try to raise money for the budget,” Castor confirmed.
These meetings — without Castor — constitute a quorum, which hinders government transparency and openness, according to Pennsylvania Newspaper Association’s media law council Melissa Melewsky, who said that if elected officials discuss county business outside the public eye, Sunshine laws apply.
“In its most basic terms, the Sunshine Act is Pennsylvania’s public meetings law,” said Melewsky.
“It guarantees the public’s right to attend and participate in meetings of their government. What elected officials need to be careful of, is any time a quorum is discussing agency business, the Sunshine Act applies. Whether at a restaurant, someone’s home, or whether they’re at the public meeting hall, the Sunshine Act applies.”
With some exemptions, the Sunshine Act provides that every portion of every meeting of an agency be open to public observation and critique.
It imposes procedural requirements to ensure advance notice is given to the public before meetings take place.
“There are also notices that apply to the other elected board members,” said Melewsky.
“Agencies often ignore the Sunshine Act and don’t suffer the consequences.” Castor told The Times Herald he has never been invited to any Jem Restaurant gatherings prior to the commissioners’ regular Tuesday meetings.
“I often wondered why I was the only one on time at the courthouse, and commissioners Matthews and Hoeffel, Maza and Miller were always late or never there,” said Castor.
“Now I guess I know what they were doing.”
Hoeffel defended the meetings as purely social.
“We tell stories, gossip, tell jokes, and (the meetings) have been helpful in building a relationship between Matthews and me,” he said.
“We are frequently joined by Barry Miller and Jim Maza, two of our staff, and when we talk about county matters, it’s in terms of general, political matters. I certainly know the requirements of the Sunshine law and we don’t deliberate on issues and we don’t decide issues. I’m confident we have not broken the law.
“There are three of us, and it’s a challenge for three-member boards,” said Hoeffel.
“I know what we talk about — the stories we tell, the gossip we engage in, and talk about politics, and if you overheard discussion about the bipartisan makeup of such, yea, we do talk about politics, but that’s not decision-making or deliberating leading up to decision-making.”
A call placed to Matthews seeking comment was not returned at press time.
Times Herald Staff
NORRISTOWN — Two of three Montgomery County commissioners have been meeting on Tuesdays before the regular 10 a.m. county commissioners regular agenda meeting, a Times Herald reporter recently observed.
The Jem Restaurant, located across the street from the Hillcrest Plaza Shopping Center at Swede Street and Germantown Pike, is typically bustling at 8:45 a.m.
Some regular faces can be seen during that time, namely those of Montgomery County Commissioners’ Chairman Jim Matthews and Vice Chairman Joe Hoeffel.
A Times Herald reporter was at the Jem on Oct. 19, and again on Nov. 9, within earshot of Matthews and Hoeffel, who were having their Tuesday breakfast rendezvous with county Solicitor Barry Miller and Deputy Chief Operating Officer Jim Maza.
The reporter overheard them talking about such subjects as appointments, land acquisitions, expenditures, operating budgets and bonds.
But on each occasion, one major figure was left out of the equation — the third commissioner, Bruce Castor. This created a clear violation of Pennsylvania’s Sunshine Act, according to a Pennsylvania Newspaper Association attorney.
When the Times Herald reporter presented Castor with the findings of the meetings, he said almost all the material was exactly what was marked for the subsequent 10 a.m. commissioner’s meeting agenda.
At Wednesday morning’s public commissioner’s meeting, Matthews denied talking county business during the morning gatherings, and said much of the conversation revolved around “the Eagles, family and food.”
In both cases, on Oct. 19 and Nov. 9, the reporter heard nothing of these subjects.
During the Oct. 19 meeting, Matthews and Hoeffel were overheard discussing appointments, which are rotated among the three commissioners.
According to Castor, during that morning’s commissioner’s meeting, they discussed putting a bond together with State Sen. John Rafferty, in order to pay for economic development in Conshohocken.
During the Nov. 9 meeting, Matthews and Hoeffel were overheard discussing the following:
• Being unable to put money into the operating budget, and a $22 million-deal needed.
“The $22 million was to be realized by the sale of the Human Services Center,” Castor confirmed.
“They are talking about whether they can include that in the county budget or not. When they say they can’t, it’s because they need to use the money to pay off bonds. That very day, we discussed a proposal to sell the Human Services Center.”
• Matters of Norristown school taxes.
“The school district and the municipality are anxious for the sale of the Human Services building to go through because that would add the building back to the tax rolls,” Castor explained.
“They are trying to figure a way to remove the line item from the budget and at the same time find money for Norristown. That’s about as big county business as you can get.”
• Matters of confidentiality reports in reference to the Human Services building.
That very morning, Castor said, they discussed taking that provision out of the deal.
“The reason I know we discussed that is because I objected to it being confidential,” said Castor.
“I thought, if it was known we were negotiating for a better sale of the building, then other potential buyers would learn of it and we might be able to get a better price.”
• Central figures in terms of rent.
“They are calculating whether the county will have to pay rent to keep our departments in the (Human Services) building, and how much that rent will be,” said Castor.
“The rent will affect the negotiation of the sale of the building.”
• Negotiations disclosures.
“They are trying to decide whether or not we should hire a consultant to represent us in the negotiations of the sale of the building. That’s about as governmental as it gets,” said Castor.
• An Oct. 26 meeting commissioners had with CBIZ, a controversial health insurance consultant.
“CBIZ executives have given tens of thousands of dollars to Jim Matthews’ and Joe Hoeffel’s campaigns, in exchange for secret, no-bid contracts for the county’s health administration. It paid for a free car for Matthews to drive around in, tax-free,” said Castor.
• The commissioners selling back the land of Norristown Farm Park, auctioning off the herd and selling farm park supplies along with it.
“A program we were considering was to sell assets and try to raise money for the budget,” Castor confirmed.
These meetings — without Castor — constitute a quorum, which hinders government transparency and openness, according to Pennsylvania Newspaper Association’s media law council Melissa Melewsky, who said that if elected officials discuss county business outside the public eye, Sunshine laws apply.
“In its most basic terms, the Sunshine Act is Pennsylvania’s public meetings law,” said Melewsky.
“It guarantees the public’s right to attend and participate in meetings of their government. What elected officials need to be careful of, is any time a quorum is discussing agency business, the Sunshine Act applies. Whether at a restaurant, someone’s home, or whether they’re at the public meeting hall, the Sunshine Act applies.”
With some exemptions, the Sunshine Act provides that every portion of every meeting of an agency be open to public observation and critique.
It imposes procedural requirements to ensure advance notice is given to the public before meetings take place.
“There are also notices that apply to the other elected board members,” said Melewsky.
“Agencies often ignore the Sunshine Act and don’t suffer the consequences.” Castor told The Times Herald he has never been invited to any Jem Restaurant gatherings prior to the commissioners’ regular Tuesday meetings.
“I often wondered why I was the only one on time at the courthouse, and commissioners Matthews and Hoeffel, Maza and Miller were always late or never there,” said Castor.
“Now I guess I know what they were doing.”
Hoeffel defended the meetings as purely social.
“We tell stories, gossip, tell jokes, and (the meetings) have been helpful in building a relationship between Matthews and me,” he said.
“We are frequently joined by Barry Miller and Jim Maza, two of our staff, and when we talk about county matters, it’s in terms of general, political matters. I certainly know the requirements of the Sunshine law and we don’t deliberate on issues and we don’t decide issues. I’m confident we have not broken the law.
“There are three of us, and it’s a challenge for three-member boards,” said Hoeffel.
“I know what we talk about — the stories we tell, the gossip we engage in, and talk about politics, and if you overheard discussion about the bipartisan makeup of such, yea, we do talk about politics, but that’s not decision-making or deliberating leading up to decision-making.”
A call placed to Matthews seeking comment was not returned at press time.
